Off line mix

[radioguy]

Not sure if this is where to post this but...

We do long form talk programs. We have one host via Xstream and one host in studio. We also have a producer who sits in the control room and occasionally gets in on the show as well. When we go to a commercial break they like to talk off line. We have callers via an NX12 who need to hear programming during commercials and we have call in guests via the same NX12 who need to be able to chat with the hosts during the breaks. We played with this yesterday at length and never quite felt comfortable with what we were doing.

We did this pre Element with a convoluted mix of aux sends. I am hoping that the Element can greatly simplify this process. Plus, once we have it we can save it and the board ops can pull it up at will without having to know complex aux send configurations.

Any suggestions on how to do this would be greatly appreciated.

Doug

[Andrew_KOOP]

Sounds cool. I'm interested in hearing how to figure out a solution to a challenge like this.

One simple thing that we do - too simple for what you are doing it sounds like - is to use the preview and talkback busses to talk with callers before we put them on the air. We're using a 2x12 system. When the call is on hold (or sitting on a hybrid) the caller hears program audio. If we want to chat with that guest before going on, then we put the hybrid into preview and use the talkback button. That works great for a host and a guest but it sounds like you want more people on the conversation.

Maybe you could use another PGM bus as a chat bus? That way you could move sources between the on-air bus and the chatting bus as you needed?

Or - maybe you could use a VMIX setup? Maybe something where the people who need to hear the chatting have their monitor feed switched between the PGM bus and a mix of the sources that need to chat? Maybe you could key off of something like the host mike to switch the VMIX settings?

Just ideas. Let me know how it works out.

[radioguy]

What we have done so far is to go ahead and set up the Aux A buss as the buss that all the talent and call in guests monitor. That way we can use the Aux send levels to lower the level of the commercials so that all of the talent can chat during the commercials. We set them up pre fade level so that they don't change with the faders and wig out the talent.

We also set up a channel as a master channel for all of the mics and call in guests. We feed it with Program 3 and then send it to Program 1. It basically gives us a single master channel for all of the talent. It keeps the board op from having to pull multiple mics during a break.

We did our first broadcast last night from the new studios after having only two weeks to get them set up. It went well. Our next broadcast was today and it was a complete disaster. We are currently in our third broadcast and it seems to be going quite well.

I don't mind using the Aux sends so much with the Element because we can go in and save them to a profile so that the board ops don't need to know how to set up the entire board. Just recall the profile and everything is there. It's just taken us a bit to get there. And being so rushed doesn't help any.

Doug

[Catfish]

I think AUTO mode might help you here. In the source profiles for each codec and phone source, select AUTO as your mix-minus source. Make sure you do this for every phone and every codec. Save changes and reload your show.

Now, your codecs and your callers will hear PGM-1 minus themselves when they are on the air. And when they are off the air, they will hear whatever has been assigned to the PGM-4/Record bus. Now the PGM-4/Record bus becomes your "off line" mix. Assign anything to that bus you wish for the callers/hosts to hear when they are not on the air. This feed is pre-fader and pre-ON switch, so that even if the fader is down and/or the channel off, the source will be heard in this mix. In this manner it is possible for callers who are offline to hear each other even when their channels are off.

This sounds more complicated than it is. It is quite simple for the operators. If they turn a caller ON, the caller hears the air mix (PGM-1) minus themselves. If they turn a caller OFF, the caller hears whatever has been assigned to the PGM-4/Record mix, minus themselves. Nothing to remember once the engineer configures it via browser. And you can save all the bus assignments with the show profile so the console is instantly configured for the operator.

Push to TALK always works, no matter what mode the mix minus is in. But it is important to note that some clients like to assign the OPERATOR mic to the PGM-4/Record mix. Since the assignment is pre-fader and pre-ON switch, the OPERATOR mic will always be feeding the "off line" mix. We've seen operators turn their MIC off taking themselves off the air and without missing a beat, continue talking to callers and talent via this "off line" method.

Do please let us know if this answers the need. And thanks for contributing!

[radioguy]

All of that sounds great except I have one more complicating factor. In the program mode we don't have individual level control for each element (pardon the pun) of the broadcast. For instance: Our in studio talent complained about the bump music being too loud to his headphones and couldn't hear himself over it. If we lowered the music to an acceptable level for him, it was too low for the broadcast.

What we have done is to basically create a mix minus with aux sends for each source. We have two Xstreams and two hybrids and the in studio host on at any given time. The in studio host listens to Aux A in his headphones. We can then adjust all of the levels to him without affecting what is heard on the air.

I do like the fact that we can save these profiles and recall them but I will admit that I am a little disappointed that even though we have this great technologically advanced system, we still have to revert to using aux sends to create our own mix minus matrix. Don't get me wrong, I love the Axia system and wouldn't give it back. It does so many things easier than anything we have ever used. If this is the only issue, we are still way ahead in the game.

Doug

[AXIA_milos]

If you need volume control of different sources so that you can give a special mix to the in-studio host headphone.. yes, you will need to use some sort of "fader"... either dedicating faders on the surface or using the AUX channels. If all you need to do is create on off control to the host headphone... the previous suggestion of using PGM4 for OFF LINE would create the option to control what is on during an OFF LINE conversation. There is also the other PGM mixes. There is also the VMIX function (virtual mixer). The virtual mixer would allow you to provide a different gain stage for a source to the final destination, but to actually control what sources are mixed (ON/OFF) state would require the Pathfinder application and some external buttons.

I understand your needs in your first entry and the previous solution I think is really the best, but with your second challenge with a host needing different gain of each source that is different than your "ONAIR" levels is a challenge and really he/she needs just that, a different mixer. If the host is only complaining about bumper music and you don't want the hassle of a second "mix" (either through vmix or other). Maybe consider not providing the audio.

[radioguy]

Thanks guys for all of the responses. Once we get to a point where we can experiment I will play with the PGM 4 buss again. Part of my problem is talent. I'm sure you all know how that goes.

Right now we have it working with aux sends going here there and everywhere.

And again, you Axia guys have done a terrific job. I have never built studios so quickly and easily. It looks great and sounds great. I wouldn't trade it for anything. I find myself now looking for opportunities to add this or that to the system. The GPIO stuff is fantastic. We have had more fun adding relay closures to stuff and watching them pass through the system. Overall, I am very pleased.

Doug

[Catfish]

So, the aux sends are only being used because you have a host who wants to hear a different mix than that which is being sent to air. That is not typical, but I understand it.

Before you abandon the simple built-in automatic mixes (and mix-minuses) you might want to take a closer look at his mic levels. Perhaps you want to turn on the dynamics processor for his microphone.

[radioguy]

Actually they want to talk to each other and a phone guest while we are in a commercial break. The commercial audio is too loud in the mix minus buss for them to do this. And they aren't all in the same studio... the host is via ISDN and the co host is in studio.

What would be the ideal situation is to have the ability to adjust the audio levels into the off line mix or mix minus buss. That way we could turn down the commercials and turn up the host or guest so that they can hear each other better. Does that make sense?

If not let me know. I would love to talk about this and see if we can come up with a solution. Plus it may be helpful for other folks using the consoles.

Doug

[Catfish]

I understand the request. It is not typical. Usually, the pre-fader levels are perfect for this function assuming all inputs are calibrated. I would check there first. Make sure the faders are at the nominal mark and you are getting nominal levels from all sources, callers, codecs, commercials, etc. If not, adjust their source gain levels until they are nominal. This will normalize levels and also return you to the optimum gain setting for headroom/noise.

Once this is done, if you still want to turn down the commercial level, using AUX sends for your backfeed audio is a pretty good way to make custom mixes. Sounds like you've figured that out. I wish to reiterate that 99% of the time, the automatic mix is perfect for the task and most of our clients love it. Most clients won't need to complicate their setup with aux sends. But of course, it's comforting to know that you can do anything from "the simple to the exotic" using Axia consoles.

Thanks for contributing.